Product managers cite Steve Jobs, Netflix’s culture deck, or Amazon’s working backwards. I learned more from Mark E. Smith and The Fall, a post-punk band from Manchester that existed from 1976 to 2018.
The Fall were the longest-running post-punk band in history, releasing 31 studio albums over 42 years. Mark E Smith was the only constant member through roughly 53 lineups. Radio DJ John Peel stated “always different; they are always the same.” They were his favourite band. And though The Fall never achieved mainstream success they maintained a loyal cult following that influenced, well, everyone.
What can a cantankerous post-punk frontman teach product teams? Quite a lot, as it happens.
“If it’s me and your granny on bongos, it’s The Fall”
This famous quote captures something most teams struggle with. The band went through massive personnel changes but always remained The Fall. Smith understood that vision isn’t about the people, it’s about the essence.
When Craig Scanlon left after 17 years service, when his wife Brix departed, when entire rhythm sections walked out, The Fall continued because Smith never wavered on what it The Fall was.
Product teams can lose direction every time leadership changes or priorities shift. If you can’t explain your product’s essence in one sentence that would be true regardless of who builds it, you don’t have real vision yet.
Netflix understood this when they pivoted from DVD-by-mail to streaming. The vision was about giving people the entertainment they want, when they want it. Reed Hastings could have said “If it’s me and your granny writing recommendation algorithms, it’s still Netflix.”
Three Rs and Product Development
The Fall summarized their approach in one of their earliest tracks, 1978’s “Repetition.” Over clanging keyboards and piercing guitar, Mark E Smith sneered his allegiance to the three Rs: “Repetition, repetition, repetition.”
The Fall would take the same musical ideas and rework them across multiple albums. Hex Enduction Hour, recorded in 1981, pushed their core elements to their logical extreme through repetition and slight variation. Each version wasn’t a copy but an iteration.
Each iteration of Google Search refined the same fundamental problem while adding new capabilities. Amazon’s obsession with one-click purchasing led to innovations across their entire ecosystem.
The Fall’s two-drummer approach on Hex Enduction Hour shows this perfectly. Instead of replacing their sound, they doubled down on rhythm while maintaining everything else that made them The Fall. Product teams often change too many variables at once.
Mark E Smith understood that breakthrough innovations usually come from methodical iteration on a stable foundation. He might have put that differently though.
When WhatsApp added voice messages, they didn’t rebuild their entire interface. They took their core messaging experience and extended it logically. When Stripe added international payments, they applied their simple API philosophy to a more complex problem.
Northern White Crap That Talks Back
Mark E Smith described The Fall as “Northern white crap that talks back” and refused to soften this positioning for broader appeal. The band could have smoothed their rough edges, made their music more accessible, or toned down Smith’s abrasive lyrics. Instead, they doubled down on exactly what made them alienating to mainstream audiences.
This created something remarkable: There is no such thing as a casual Fall fan. If you’re a fan, you consider yourself an expert. Once you got seduced by The Fall’s world, it was almost impossible not to fully immerse yourself.
Products need to embrace their fans too. Discord started as a gaming communication tool and resisted expanding beyond gamers until they’d nailed that market. Notion refused to simplify their complex interface to chase casual users and instead built a community of power users who became their best advocates.
Mark E Smith knew exactly who The Fall was for and never compromised that identity. He understood that trying to please everyone results in pleasing no one deeply. And he probably didn’t care about pleasing anyone.
When Figma launched, they could have positioned themselves as “design software for everyone.” Instead, they focused on interface designers and built exactly what that audience needed. Their specific positioning attracted designers who became passionate advocates, eventually pulling entire organisations toward the product.
The lesson is to be genuinely yourself and serve your real audience rather than an imaginary mainstream one.
Being Difficult Works
Mark E Smith was famously difficult to work with. He fired band members on a whim, demanded absolute creative control, and never compromised his vision for anyone. But this uncompromising approach also produced 31 albums and a 42-year career that influenced generations of musicians.
The challenge for product leaders is knowing when uncompromising vision serves the product and when it destroys teams. Steve Jobs was famously difficult but his perfectionism drove Apple to create category-defining products.
The Fall stayed focused and productive when most bands would have compromised themselves into irrelevance.
But Mark E Smith’s methods also drove away talented musicians who could have contributed significantly. Marc Riley was sacked at the end of 1982, following several arguments, one of which resulted in a fist fight during the Australian tour.
The key difference between destructive and productive obstinacy is whether the uncompromising standards serve the product or the ego. Jeff Bezos’s “disagree and commit” principle at Amazon shows a more sustainable version. Strong opinions, loosely held, with clear decision-making authority when consensus isn’t possible.
Building for the Prole Art Threat
The Fall positioned themselves as working-class art that upset cultural elites, never chased critical acclaim or tried to impress music journalists. He built The Fall for people like himself, an audience of one.
The focus on authenticity over the mainstream created fierce loyalty. The Fall’s fans didn’t only like the music, they felt understood by it. Smith knew exactly who he was building for and never wavered.
TikTok succeeded by understanding teenage users better than any adult executive could. They didn’t try to make the app more “professional” or “serious.” They doubled down on what their users actually wanted, even when it looked ridiculous to everyone else.
GitHub focused on what developers needed for collaboration, ignoring suggestions to make an accessible product for non-technical users. This deep focus on their core audience created the foundation for everything that followed.
Mark E Smith understood that the Fall should be “the band by which all others must be judged.” Not because they appealed to everyone, but because they served their specific audience better than anyone else.
Always Different, Always the Same
Despite lineup changes numbering in the dozens, The Fall were “always different; they are always the same.” They maintained a recognizable sound while constantly evolving. They understood how to innovate within constraints rather than abandoning what worked.
When Brix Smith joined the band in 1983, her tenure marked a shift towards the relatively conventional, with the songs she co-wrote often having strong pop hooks and more orthodox verse-chorus-verse structures. But even these more accessible songs remained unmistakably Fall tracks because they never abandoned the core elements that defined the band.
Spotify has added podcasts, audiobooks, and social features while maintaining their core music discovery experience. Slack evolved from gaming to workplace communication while preserving the essence of what made their communication platform work.
Constraint isn’t a limitation. Mark E Smith’s constraints were his distinctive vocal style, the band’s rhythmic approach, and their working-class perspective. Within those boundaries, he could explore, endlessly.
Google’s constraint is organizing information. Within that framework, they’ve built search, maps, email, productivity tools, and cloud services. The constraint provides coherence while allowing for massive innovation.
Product teams often think evolution means abandoning constraints. The Fall shows how working within clear boundaries can drive more meaningful innovation than starting from scratch.
The 30-Second Test
John Peel could “recall every incarnation of the group on demand” because each version of The Fall, while different, remained true to something essential. You could hear any 30-second clip from any era and identify it as The Fall.
If someone encountered any feature or interaction from your product in isolation, would they recognise it as yours? If you showed someone your error messages, your loading states, or your onboarding flow, would they understand what your product stands for?
The Fall passed this test because Mark E Smith never lost sight of what the band represented. Every song, every album, every lineup change served the same fundamental purpose.
In a well made product you can see this principle in decisions large and small, from inclusive design language to edge case handling. Features are consistent, and express the same underlying vision.
The Lessons Of Mark E Smith
The Fall offer several specific lessons for product management.
Product identity should survive any team change. If your vision depends on specific people being present, it’s not really vision.
Breakthrough products usually come from pushing existing strengths further rather than abandoning what works. Change one variable at a time while maintaining your core foundation.
Build for people who will use your product daily, even if it means ignoring broader market potential. Deep focus on your core audience creates the foundation for everything that follows.
Clear boundaries provide coherence while allowing for meaningful innovation within those bounds. Constraints enable creativity rather than limiting it.
Difficult decisions become easier when your purpose is crystal clear. When you know exactly what you’re building and why, most choices become obvious.
The Fall never achieved mainstream success, but they built something that people cared about deeply. In an era of growth-at-all-costs mentality, Smith’s approach reminds us that building products people truly care about might be more valuable than building products everyone kind of likes.
As one critic noted, “anyone who can tell you the five best Fall LPs, or the five best Fall tracks, has missed the point. It’s the whole body of the work that’s to be applauded.” Great products aren’t judged by individual features but by the complete experience they create for the people they’re designed to serve.
Mark E Smith understood something many product managers struggle with: when your vision is clear enough to survive any team change, you can focus on execution rather than constantly re-explaining the basics.
The Fall proves that uncompromising focus on your real audience, combined with relentless iteration within clear constraints, can build something that lasts. Not because it appeals to everyone, but because it serves someone deeply and authentically.
Better to be essential to a few than irrelevant to many.
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